Class 1 / 2 / 4 NIC interaction

We have had a number of examples of problems - see below: Example 1 Individual has two consecutive employments. Has P60 showing NIC band breakdown for 2nd employment only; P45 for first employment does not give the NIC band breakdown. Individual also has Class 2/4 income – and in ‘the old days’ we would have done an NIC deferment. For 15-16 return we need to put the NIC band breakdown on the system for the correct (reduced) Class 4 NIC to calculate – but we do not have the information to do this. HMRC self-assessment helpline do not have access to this information; they have told me to contact NIC helpline (0300 200 3500 – no agent line as far as I am aware?) – they have put me through to someone more senior and then to employer dept who told me to call self-assessment helpline! Have tried this twice with same result. It appears no-one has access to the data – despite presumably RTI providing someone somewhere with we what we need. Even if we can get hold of all payslips, it is difficult to calculate exactly how the NIC has been made up – and it is not cost effective to do it either. The final person I spoke to said to leave it off the SA return, overpay Class 4 and then apply to get it back later. That would potentially be a final straw for one client, and could cause difficulties to others. Going forwards: could P45’s be redesigned to include P60 information with the full breakdown? Is there a sensible, cost effective way of solving this problem? Example 2 Partner in a partnership (GPs in my cases) holds an outside appointment (Class 1 NIC) that forms part of partnership profits and is pooled and shared between the partners. The Class 1 income is correctly adjusted against the Class 4 NIC’able profit on the partnership return and through to the personal return. On trying to complete the personal return: cannot include Class 1 NIC if there is no employment. Putting employment on with zero income doesn't help. So if Class 1 is not included, where previously a deferment would be in operation, Class 4 is overstated. Non-March year end – so cannot add back the employment income and ‘fiddle’ the profit shares to make it come right. Editing the tax return makes it get rejected when filed by internet. I suggested sending a paper one – and was told if I sent that in knowing it would have been rejected (even if I explained why in white space, attached the P60 and a covering letter), then I would be submitting an incorrect return and putting my client at risk! Presumably if I submit a tax return without the Class 1, so it does get accepted, I am equally knowingly submitting an incorrect return and making my client pay more than he should. Practical suggestion for how to deal with this? Example 3 SATR submitted for medical professional with class 4, class 2 & class 1 NIC. HMRC system unable to ‘capture’ as system not ready for NIC integration. Client sent recovery letter by HMRC accounts department for difference. HMRC will not have a fix (and there appears to be no work around) for their software until October, but accepted SATR as submitted by our third party software is correct. HMRC officer could not contact accounts department to have them hold off tax (class 4 NIC) which is not due, and so they will continue to chase. Currently unable to get through to accounts department due to ‘high call volumes’. The worry is that if the ‘system’ cannot cope with a straightforward calculation which third party developers have addressed then ‘making tax digital’ timeframe may be wholly unrealistic and will any issues be sorted out or will it just be rolled out regardless as seems to be happening now?! HMRC staff at the ‘coal face’ seem to be lacking guidance as they are not able to offer solutions other than someone will look into and call you back which did not happen in this instance. This matter has caused several hours in ‘down time’ here and an upset client getting ‘threatening’ letters; is there any complaints/recourse procedure which is worth pursuing?
1 reply | Post a reply

Replies

For #1 do the relevant totals not appear in the client HMRC account under "information to help complete your tax return"? Information seemed to show up late August, and the implication of comments on the HMRC WT Webinar on Class 2 was that they expected to have completed the capture of NIC details by September. For someone using HMRC software to complete and submit the Reg100 calculation happens automatically based on the HMRC SA record for the client, and (if not available when the return was completed) should apparently have been automatically adjusted when the information became/ becomes available, in the same way as computations on 3rd party software calculations that tried to adjust for the correct Class 2 were amended by HMRC systems to what the client record showed to be Class 2